A Q&A with San Diego LGBT Pride Grand Marshal Cleve Jones

During the turbulent 1970s, Cleve Jones was front and center for the start of the gay rights movement.

In 1969, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people fought a police raid on the Stonewall Inn in New York City. They threw bottles and bricks, protesting the government’s anti-gay laws, and forcing the police to retreat. The Stonewall Riots - as they were later called - sparked momentum for the gay rights movement in cities all over the country, including San Francisco, where, less than a decade later the young Jones was a student intern for Supervisor Harvey Milk.

Milk - who, along with Mayor George Moscone, was gunned down by fellow Supervisor Dan White - was a prominent figure in the LGBT community’s early fight for equality, and, long after his assassination, Milk’s legacy inspired Jones to continue advocating for full equality for LGBT people.

After years working in legislative offices in the late 1970s and early 1980s, Jones became a fierce advocate for people living with HIV/AIDS. He cofounded the San Francisco AIDS Foundation in 1983, and in 1987, after losing his close friend Marvin Feldman to AIDS, Jones founded the NAMES Project AIDS Memorial Quilt. The quilt has grown to a memorial for more than 80,000 people who have died from complications related to HIV/AIDS.

Jones, now 54, has become one of the most recognized leaders of the gay rights movement. He continues to advocate for HIV/AIDS education, treatment and services, and, locally, he’s become involved with a boycott on the Manchester Grand Hyatt, owned by Doug Manchester, who donated $125,000 to Proposition 8, the California same-sex marriage ban.

Jones will be the grand marshal at the 35th annual San Diego LGBT Pride parade Saturday, July 18 at 11 a.m., and he’s thrilled to spend the weekend celebrating Pride in America’s Finest City.

Jones took time from a busy traveling schedule to talk with San Diego News Network about the LGBT community’s visibility, his profound disappointment with President Barack Obama, and a march on Washington planned in October that he says may be unlike anything the LGBT community has ever seen.

San Diego News Network: In the last year, the visibility of the LGBT community seems to have really increased. In part, the spirit of Harvey Milk, the slain, gay San Francisco Supervisor who was a fierce advocate for gay rights, seems to be alive and well again - but we still seem to be struggling with complacency. If Harvey were alive today, what do you think he’d say to the community?

Cleve Jones: Harvey’s been dead a long time, but I believe if he were alive today his message would be the same as it was 30 years ago. He’d be encouraging us to come out, he’d be encouraging us to build coalitions, and he’d be encouraging us to be uncompromising in our demand for full equality. Back in 1973, Harvey Milk wrote a column in which he said: “Masturbation can be fun, but it doesn’t take the place of the real thing; our [LGBT] leaders need to stop playing with themselves and stop accepting crumbs.” That was 30 years ago. If he were alive today, I think that’s what he’d be telling us now.

SDNN: With regard to same-sex marriage, gay and lesbian couples have seen success and tremendous setbacks over the last year - most notably the setback in California with the passage of Proposition 8, the same-sex marriage ban. How, with the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall Riots and the ongoing fight for same-sex marriage, are Pride celebrations across the country changing the message; is there a greater focus on advocacy? What does the LGBT community have to celebrate?

CJ: This would be a very good year for us to get serious. I think that in addition to it being the 40th anniversary of Stonewall, it’s also very clear that a new chapter in our movement’s history has begun. I think there is increasing determination among all different segments of our community to demand full equality now. This is a historic opportunity and we would be foolish not to seize it.

SDNN: Was the tone at New York City Pride, where you grand marshaled the parade, more serious or somber? Was there a greater focus on politics this year?

CJ: Definitely; it was still very celebratory, but there was a great deal of political content too. And it’s happening all over the country, not just in Pride parades. Just the way people are thinking; they’re thinking now is the time for us to really unite and push forward for full federal equality. I want to say something else about the fight for marriage equality. It is very important people understand clearly, even in the states where gay marriage is legal, we are still second-class citizens. The most important rights given to heterosexual couples through marriage are determined not by the state, but by the federal government. True equality can only come through Congress, our president and the U.S. Supreme Court.

SDNN: How soon could the LGBT community see equality - marriage equality, hate crimes legislation, employment non-discrimination legislation - at the federal level?

CJ: The pace of our progress will be determined by the strength of our efforts. I believe we can win full equality in all 50 states within a few years - if we push very hard. If we fail to make the most of this moment in history, I think we’ll regret it for decades to come.

SDNN: Why is this a critical time in the LGBT community’s movement? What has come together to make this a “make or break” moment for gay rights?

CJ: There are so many things that have come together, it’s really quite remarkable. For people who don’t fully comprehend it, they need to pay attention. First of all - and I’m going to try to tick these off in some sort of order - the election of Barack Obama clearly showed that real change is possible in America for our community. Having the election of Barack Obama accompany the passage of Proposition 8 was a very bittersweet experience. On one hand, we saw the change that is possible; on the other, we saw our rights could be taken away in the blink of an eye.

There’s also been an incredible shift in public opinion. We’ve seen advances in unlikely places, like Iowa [whose Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage this year]. We also got hit on the head with the cold, hard reality of Proposition 8. We have a Democratic majority in Congress and a Democratic president; we also have the general public, whose opinion is way ahead of our politicians. We had the film Milk come out last year, coinciding with the 30th anniversary of the murder of Harvey Milk. It informed young people about a part of LGBT history they had never been taught before. It [the film] informed us all what strategies work when we’re fighting for our rights. And, it is the 40th anniversary of Stonewall, which has helped us understand that we’ve been fighting a long time now; we need to win. I think this is the time. That’s why I enthusiastically support the march on Washington [D.C.] in October, and strategizing in all 435 Congressional districts.

SDNN: There seems to be some dissent within the community with regard to President Barack Obama’s actions, or inactions, in terms of legislation that impacts the LGBT community. What is your response to the Department of Justice’s Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) brief, and the administration’s response to calls to overturn Don’t Ask Don’t Tell?

CJ: I have been profoundly disappointed by Barack Obama’s actions so far on LGBT issues. It’s beginning to smell a lot like [former-President Bill] Clinton. Clinton made the flowery proclamations, and gave a select few good jobs to us; I don’t know whether he ever had a cocktail party - but that’s not what we’re fighting for. We’re fighting for true, full equality. And I believe we need to push as hard as we possibly can. We need to push Obama, we need to push Congress, and we need to push the United States Supreme Court. I think we need to wait and see. I’m a Democrat and I campaigned for Barack Obama, and I expect to be campaigning for his re-election, but I need to see some real movement forward.

SDNN: Prior to the DOMA brief, Stampp Corbin - a San Diego city commissioner, a San Diego News Network blogger, and the former co-chair of the Obama LGBT Leadership Council - and other LGBT leaders also expressed disappointment in the president, but appealed to the LGBT community to be patient. Your approach is a bit more hard-line. Do you find yourself at odds with other LGBT leaders?

CJ: Look, there is a lot of naïve stuff going on out there. If we don’t see movement on these issues in the first two years, we’re not going to get anything. We have to get it now, before it’s time for re-election. If we don’t see progress on our issues in the first two years, we won’t see it until the very end of [Obama's] term. Basically, he is telling us he wants to do all this for us, but he doesn’t have the votes. He needs to start using some of his political capital to get the votes in congress. He needs to do the hard work. I’d point out to people like Stampp and all the others serving as apologists for this administration, that we had eight years of prosperity and peace in the 90s. I understand the president is dealing with wars and an economic meltdown, but in eight years under Bill Clinton, we were given Don’t Ask Don’t Tell and the Defense of Marriage Act. We need to push. We need to be uncompromising. A free and equal people would not stand for the kinds of compromises and delays we’ve been asked to accept.

SDNN: What do you predict the timeline is for a federal hate crimes bill and employment non-discrimination bill to pass?

CJ: I’m not going to prioritize rights. I want nothing less than full equality. I want the 14th amendment of the United States Constitution to be an equal protection clause; the 14th amendment is, essentially, what we base our demand on. It is the sole demand that the march on Washington will focus on, and it should be a talking point for all our leaders. We want nothing short of full, equal protection in all matters governed by civil law in all 50 states.

As people look back to 1963 and 1964, in the early 1960s, the African-American struggle for civil rights was gaining great momentum and moral authority. White Americans were made aware of the brutality of segregation and people of goodwill all across the country began to say, “Yes, it’s time for equal protection.” It was then that the battles in Selma and Montgomery and Birmingham and the voices of Dr. [Martin Luther] King and the people of that time went to the federal government and got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. Some of the greatest voices against compromise are the voices from that time in history, and we should learn their history. I believe when our leaders accept compromises, they are contributing to undermining our own humanity. My message to LGBT people is simple: if you think you’re equal, act like it. Don’t settle for compromises, don’t settle for delays. How much longer are we going to wait? Another 40 years? No.

SDNN: Tell us a bit more about the planned LGBT march on Washington in October. Why is it necessary, what message do you hope it will send, and when was the last time we saw something like this in the nation’s capitol?

CJ: I don’t think we’ve ever seen something like this before, because the technology didn’t exist to do it. A quick thing on the march: after the film [Milk] came out in November, hundreds of young people e-mailed me and wanted a march on Washington, and I discouraged them. I saw marches through the lens of previous marches that were difficult and complicated productions that cost millions of dollars; and some debts didn’t get paid, and many felt alienated by the marches because they became entertainment events, not political statements.

At that time, I also held a lot of hope for Obama and the new Democratic majority. But, by inauguration, I was already nervous and facing skepticism. And when Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi said repealing DOMA is not a priority, I thought, “Oh my gosh, we’re in trouble.” About that time, David Mixner put out a call for a march on Washington, and I found myself saying, “Yes, I’ve changed my mind - we do need to march.”  We have to do everything we can; I mean everything. We have to write letters, we have to lobby, we have to do sit-ins and acts of civil disobedience. And shortly after, David Mixner gave an interview, I think to the The Advocate or someone, saying I should lead the march, and I thought, “I have a family and a job, but, um, OK.” So the response to that was overwhelming.

There was a fair amount of criticism too all over the blogosphere, but for every naysayer blogger, there was 1,000 e-mails from people saying they wanted to march. So, it’s the National Equality March, on Sunday Oct. 11, and we’re hoping to fill the weekend with training workshops and town hall meetings. We do not want parties; no raves, no circuit parties, no fundraisers - nothing like that. That isn’t what this was meant to be. We want to make a serious political statement, and think very carefully about the tone and content of that weekend. We want people to leave their dancing shoes at home, and put on their marching boots. Let me be really clear, though: I’m not talking about hiding the trannies or any of that crap. This is for everyone in the LGBT community - the lesbians, the gay men, the bisexuals and most certainly the transgender community. When I talk about the tone of this march, I’m not talking about any of that closet nonsense. I want it to be serious and focused on politics.

SDNN: You’ve been in high demand at Pride celebrations this year; you’ve grand marshaled parades in Salt Lake City and New York City, and you’re grand marshaling the San Diego, Vancouver and Palm Springs celebrations. Are you looking forward to visiting San Diego this weekend?

CJ: I’ve been spending a lot of time in San Diego because of the Manchester Grand Hyatt boycott, and I am so proud of the LGBT community. I’m so proud of San Diego’s massive turnout at the Prop. 8 rallies and for the community support of the Manchester boycott, and the incredible coalition San Diegans have build with the union I work for, UNITE HERE!. We’ve taken more than $7 million in business out of that hotel. I’m very grateful for people like [chair of the city's Human Relations Commission] Nicole [Murray-Ramirez], and Ron deHarte with San Diego Pride, and people from the San Diego Democratic Club. Across the board, we’ve had such wonderful support from the San Diego community that being the grand marshal there is a real treat, and a real honor, and I’m looking forward to seeing everyone this weekend.

Tags: AIDS Memorial Quilt, Barack Obama, Cleve Jones, Douglas Manchester, grand marshal, Harvey Milk, Manchester Grand Hyatt, Milk, NAMES Project, San Diego gay pride, San Diego LGBT Pride, san diego pride, SDNN, Stonewall Riots

This entry was posted on Wednesday, July 15th, 2009 at 2:59 pm and is filed under Lifestyle, Local News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.